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Post by medinno on Aug 2, 2020 19:01:47 GMT
i got a c64 mini for my birthday yesterday, its the ntsc version, after updating and trying some games (basicly all pal games with the TP on the filename) i noticed the games were running at ntsc speed, just the sound was adjusted pitch-wise, i asked on the facebook group for some fix but i cant find a way to force 50hz speed, is there some way i could achieve this? getting a pal version of the c64 isnt possible for me, getting it from the us was already expensive.
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Post by jj0 on Aug 4, 2020 10:04:18 GMT
i got a c64 mini for my birthday yesterday, its the ntsc version, after updating and trying some games (basicly all pal games with the TP on the filename) i noticed the games were running at ntsc speed, just the sound was adjusted pitch-wise, i asked on the facebook group for some fix but i cant find a way to force 50hz speed, is there some way i could achieve this? getting a pal version of the c64 isnt possible for me, getting it from the us was already expensive. What you could try if you have UART access is to kill the64, run the tv mode setup program from here and use it to set PAL mode and then run the64 again and see if the PAL games (with or without TP) work better. Or you can add it manually to PCU, or maybe spannernick could add it to PCU for testing. Btw, I'd really like a full dump of your entire NAND to see what makes an NTSC system different from a PAL system, I suspect it's in the setup parameters that are in the NAND before nanda and nandb, but maybe it's just in the 'the64' executable. Would you be able to dump it for me? I can provide more specific instructions if you want to do it. First step would be to identify what NAND chip is in your model using this nand_rw program, if you do have UART access or can run it via X-Windows Mod (via PCU) that would be great! The command to run would be # nand_rw 50 2176 read_idAnd then post the output. |
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Post by medinno on Aug 5, 2020 2:23:45 GMT
i got a c64 mini for my birthday yesterday, its the ntsc version, after updating and trying some games (basicly all pal games with the TP on the filename) i noticed the games were running at ntsc speed, just the sound was adjusted pitch-wise, i asked on the facebook group for some fix but i cant find a way to force 50hz speed, is there some way i could achieve this? getting a pal version of the c64 isnt possible for me, getting it from the us was already expensive. What you could try if you have UART access is to kill the64, run the tv mode setup program from here and use it to set PAL mode and then run the64 again and see if the PAL games (with or without TP) work better. Or you can add it manually to PCU, or maybe spannernick could add it to PCU for testing. Btw, I'd really like a full dump of your entire NAND to see what makes an NTSC system different from a PAL system, I suspect it's in the setup parameters that are in the NAND before nanda and nandb, but maybe it's just in the 'the64' executable. Would you be able to dump it for me? I can provide more specific instructions if you want to do it. First step would be to identify what NAND chip is in your model using this nand_rw program, if you do have UART access or can run it via X-Windows Mod (via PCU) that would be great! The command to run would be # nand_rw 50 2176 read_idAnd then post the output. Well, my mini doesnt have uart or FEL, i havent found a good explanation on how to do it, if you explained me how to get uart i have no problemo on sharing the nand or running the command ^^' |
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Post by jj0 on Aug 5, 2020 12:30:17 GMT
For FEL mode see here. I don't remember whether I already included the nand_rw program in it. But you can run it from an USB stick. For adding an UART this is a good guide. Let me know how you get on  Also, does your TV support 50Hz? |
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Post by medinno on Aug 5, 2020 17:04:23 GMT
oh, UART is a hardware mod ^^'
I dont think i have the abilities to install UART, but i guess i can dump the nand with the c64 maxi tool, does that work for you?
and yes, i think my tv accepts 50 hz, ive played some pal ps2 games on it
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Post by jj0 on Aug 7, 2020 10:05:52 GMT
oh, UART is a hardware mod ^^' I dont think i have the abilities to install UART, but i guess i can dump the nand with the c64 maxi tool, does that work for you? and yes, i think my tv accepts 50 hz, ive played some pal ps2 games on it The tool only dumps nanda and nandb which is useful but I'm also looking for the bootloader and hardware configuration settings part that are not part of nanda or nandb. It doesn't have to be via UART, do you think you can do the FEL mode? If not I can probably provide a custom fake update file that does it. But if you want to experiment with the a10_display program to set 50Hz video mode then you can add it to PCU by copying a10_display to the USB stick and modifying the start.sh to run it, change: # Stop the Carousel
#------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#--------------------------------------------
until [ `ps | grep -e the64 | wc -l` -eq 1 ]
do
killall the64
done
to: # Stop the Carousel
#------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#--------------------------------------------
until [ `ps | grep -e the64 | wc -l` -eq 1 ]
do
killall the64
done
# Test 50Hz video mode:
/mnt/a10_display hdmi mode 4Best edited with notepad++ if you're on Windows to preserve the Linux-style line breaks. However the difference might also be in the combination of the video mode and the 'the64' program and/or the Vice emulator library c64emu.rgl, both of which are different for the PAL and NTSC version. So maybe more experimentation is needed. Is there a specific game where the NTSC vs PAL difference is really noticeable? |
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Post by jj0 on Aug 7, 2020 15:07:30 GMT
I created a fake upgrade that temporarily uses either the European (and I assume PAL) or US (and I assume NTSC) versions of 'the64' and 'c64emu.rgl' for Firmware 1.3.2 and sets up the HDMI output to 50Hz or 60Hz . You can use this to test if that allows running PAL games OK. It doesn't change anything on your Mini itself. By default it uses the European version but by changing VERSION=0 to VERSION=1 in start.sh it will use the US version. #!/bin/sh
# Stop the Carousel
until [ `ps | grep -e the64 | wc -l` -eq 1 ]
do
killall the64
done
# Mount the European/Argent (VERSION=0) or US/Shield (VERSION=1) of the64 and c64emu.rgl
VERSION=0
mount --bind /mnt/PALvsNTSC/Firmware/1.3.2/payload${VERSION}/usr/bin/the64 /usr/bin/the64
mount --bind /mnt/PALvsNTSC/Firmware/1.3.2/payload${VERSION}/usr/lib/c64emu.rgl /usr/lib/c64emu.rgl
# Switch display mode
/mnt/PALvsNTSC/a10_display HDMI mode $(expr $VERSION + 4)
# Run the64 again
the64 & |
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Post by medinno on Aug 7, 2020 15:39:01 GMT
Okay, So with the fake upgrade i dont need the UART Adapter and just need to boot into FEL? Im sorry for being slow and bothersome but i dont wanna mess up ^^'
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Post by jj0 on Aug 7, 2020 18:07:07 GMT
Okay, So with the fake upgrade i dont need the UART Adapter and just need to boot into FEL? Im sorry for being slow and bothersome but i dont wanna mess up ^^' Better to be safe than sorry . You only need to uncompress the .7z archive onto an USB stick, put the USB stick in the Mini and then go to the settings menu, system info and apply it as upgrade. |
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Post by medinno on Aug 7, 2020 18:26:16 GMT
okay, putted the extracted files on the usb root, installed the firmware and when it booted up it was on 720p 50hz, so that changed, but all games ran the same, now with music that stopped every half second (pre installed game too), i tried with the TP flag and its the same, when i restarted the c64 it went back to stock firmware, which i guess is the idea, what do i do now ;-;?
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Post by jj0 on Aug 8, 2020 8:56:58 GMT
okay, putted the extracted files on the usb root, installed the firmware and when it booted up it was on 720p 50hz, so that changed, but all games ran the same, now with music that stopped every half second (pre installed game too), i tried with the TP flag and its the same, when i restarted the c64 it went back to stock firmware, which i guess is the idea, what do i do now ;-;? I guess more testing is needed. Is there a specific game where the NTSC vs PAL difference is really noticeable? I can do some tests myself first. |
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Post by medinno on Aug 8, 2020 21:21:55 GMT
Well, some games like Sam's journey or robocop 3 have visual glitches and all games have sped up music, also, for what i tested the game seems to run always at the right speed (or atleast it doesnt stutter like the sound), so maybe the sound is being buffered and the c64 mini plays it fasters than the emulator reproduces it, honestly the biggest reason i want to get it on pal is because of sid music, so yeah :/
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Post by medinno on Aug 14, 2020 5:34:06 GMT
hello ;-;?
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Post by jj0 on Aug 14, 2020 18:19:49 GMT
Hello  I haven't forgotten about this, I just haven't been able to think of something clever enough to say... I guess a full dump of your nand would be helpful. Do you think you can run the nand_rw program I mentioned earlier in the thread? Either via FEL mode (safest) or by running the X-Windows Mod? |
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Post by jj0 on Sept 13, 2020 12:27:34 GMT
insert code hereHello I haven't forgotten about this, I just haven't been able to think of something clever enough to say... I guess a full dump of your nand would be helpful. Do you think you can run the nand_rw program I mentioned earlier in the thread? Either via FEL mode (safest) or by running the X-Windows Mod? I'm not sure if medinno os still interested, but the 'brute force' way of replacing an NTSC Mini's nandb with a PAL Mini's nandb seems to do the trick. Though it needs some further testing. I would think it is just the 'the64' binary and the 'c64emu.rgl' that would need to be replaced with their PAL versions. If anyone with an NTSC Mini would like to try, just use PCU and makle it think your Mini is PAL. In the start.sh you will see: systemversion=$(strings /usr/bin/the64 | grep 'argent\|shield\|amora\|global')
if echo "$systemversion" | grep -q "argent"; then
mount --bind /mnt/Carousel_Games/Options/thec64/the64_argent /usr/bin/the64
elif echo "$systemversion" | grep -q "shield"; then
mount --bind /mnt/Carousel_Games/Options/thec64/the64_shield /usr/bin/the64
elif echo "$systemversion" | grep -q "amora"; then
mount --bind /mnt/Carousel_Games/Options/thec64/the64_amora /usr/bin/the64
elif echo "$systemversion" | grep -q "global"; then
mount --bind /mnt/Carousel_Games/Options/thec64/the64_amora /usr/bin/the64
fi
Change it to: systemversion=$(strings /usr/bin/the64 | grep 'argent\|shield\|amora\|global')
systemversion=argent
if echo "$systemversion" | grep -q "argent"; then
mount --bind /mnt/Carousel_Games/Options/thec64/the64_argent /usr/bin/the64
elif echo "$systemversion" | grep -q "shield"; then
mount --bind /mnt/Carousel_Games/Options/thec64/the64_shield /usr/bin/the64
elif echo "$systemversion" | grep -q "amora"; then
mount --bind /mnt/Carousel_Games/Options/thec64/the64_amora /usr/bin/the64
elif echo "$systemversion" | grep -q "global"; then
mount --bind /mnt/Carousel_Games/Options/thec64/the64_amora /usr/bin/the64
fiAnd see if that works out. |
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Post by spannernick on Oct 4, 2020 12:05:29 GMT
You can test this with a THEC64 Maxi cause it can run at 50hz or 60hz,(you can run THEC64 Mini Carousel on THEC64 Maxi) when I run THEC64 Mini Carousel at 60hz the PAL games run the SID Music to fast and the game, you can slow it down to normal speed by changing pal to ntsc in the Carousel games .tgs(TheC64 Game Settings) file or making a .cjm(Commodore Joystick Manager) file and put in it "X:64,ntsc" then it will run the game at 50hz on a 60hz THEC64 Mini, tgs and cjm are just text files with a different extension, you can use a .tgs file from a game on the Carousel and rename its extension to .cjm cause they are basically both the same file but the .cjm file has to be the same name as the disk image file so like "Ghostbusters.d64", "Ghostbusters.cjm".
On THEC64 Maxi you can select the model like "C64 NTSC", you can only select the model on THEC64 Mini using a .cjm file and using the flags "X:64,ntsc" or putting "_NT" in the .d64 image file name like "Ghostbusters_NT.d64" and if it needs Accurate Disk to run then its "Ghostbusters_NTAD.d64"
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Post by drecksoft on Aug 10, 2021 18:44:43 GMT
Will this also change the available games? So it's a full conversion US us UK/EU model and vice versa? It seems they have different games enabled but as there is only one firmware file, all seem to be includes. Game List:
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Post by RetroRic on Jan 2, 2022 19:44:16 GMT
Hi guys, has anyone successfully gone from NTSC to PAL yet?
Someone bought me a mini but the uk seller sold them an NTSC one without warning. I really want to get it into 50hrz.
Can anyone just list the steps to get things done?
I will have to put a switch in as my mini doesn't have the silver label. Could this be done with the x-windows environment?
Once I successfully do this mod I will make a youtube video on my channel showing the exact steps like this video where I install a 10mhz overclock mod:
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Post by jj0 on Jan 2, 2022 20:23:59 GMT
You don't necessarily need a switch, you can just short the pins of the FEL mode connector, or use the LED connector. But probably the easiest thing to try first is to replace the /usr/bin/the64 binary and /usr/lib/c64emu.rgl with their PAL counterparts and see if that works. You can do that without FEL mode, just use the command-line shell fake update. You probably need a factory reset after that, or remove /var/lib/the64/profile/0/settings.dat. If that doesn't work, brute-force replacing the entire rootfs (/dev/nandb) with a PAL Mini one might do it. And my earlier post suggesting to try it out via PCUAE is still valid of course. |
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Post by RetroRic on Jan 3, 2022 10:02:58 GMT
You don't necessarily need a switch, you can just short the pins of the FEL mode connector, or use the LED connector. But probably the easiest thing to try first is to replace the /usr/bin/the64 binary and /usr/lib/c64emu.rgl with their PAL counterparts and see if that works. You can do that without FEL mode, just use the command-line shell fake update. You probably need a factory reset after that, or remove /var/lib/the64/profile/0/settings.dat. If that doesn't work, brute-force replacing the entire rootfs (/dev/nandb) with a PAL Mini one might do it. And my earlier post suggesting to try it out via PCUAE is still valid of course. Thanks for the info, very helpful. Do you know where the pal versions of these files reside? |
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Post by jj0 on Jan 3, 2022 11:25:11 GMT
You don't necessarily need a switch, you can just short the pins of the FEL mode connector, or use the LED connector. But probably the easiest thing to try first is to replace the /usr/bin/the64 binary and /usr/lib/c64emu.rgl with their PAL counterparts and see if that works. You can do that without FEL mode, just use the command-line shell fake update. You probably need a factory reset after that, or remove /var/lib/the64/profile/0/settings.dat. If that doesn't work, brute-force replacing the entire rootfs (/dev/nandb) with a PAL Mini one might do it. And my earlier post suggesting to try it out via PCUAE is still valid of course. Thanks for the info, very helpful. Do you know where the pal versions of these files reside? The the64 binary and c64emu.rgl should be included in PCUAE, for nand backups see here. |
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Post by FaberfoX on Jan 28, 2023 5:59:12 GMT
So, following the work of jj0, I've built a simple Mini NTSC to PAL fake update, that as a bonus, also makes it VIC-20 aware Grab it here and let me know how it works for you guys! |
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Post by shadowtrance on Feb 11, 2023 4:55:55 GMT
So, following the work of jj0 , I've built a simple Mini NTSC to PAL fake update, that as a bonus, also makes it VIC-20 aware Grab it here and let me know how it works for you guys! I just picked up a 64 mini but sadly it's an US model (didn't even pay attention to the box in the auction tbh...it was new and sealed though!) and yep i can confirm this works. Tested it running Sam's Journey c64mini crt (and cjm) with and without this fake update. Without the fake update it runs way too fast (i have a real pal 64 to compare to), with the fake update it runs perfect at the right speed. Any way i can make this permanent? I'm no stranger to digging around in places i shouldn't be.  |
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Post by FaberfoX on Feb 26, 2023 18:21:15 GMT
So, following the work of jj0 , I've built a simple Mini NTSC to PAL fake update, that as a bonus, also makes it VIC-20 aware Grab it here and let me know how it works for you guys! I just picked up a 64 mini but sadly it's an US model (didn't even pay attention to the box in the auction tbh...it was new and sealed though!) and yep i can confirm this works. Tested it running Sam's Journey c64mini crt (and cjm) with and without this fake update. Without the fake update it runs way too fast (i have a real pal 64 to compare to), with the fake update it runs perfect at the right speed. Any way i can make this permanent? I'm no stranger to digging around in places i shouldn't be. It's not hard to do but I'd rather not do permanent changes as they may hamper future firmware upgrades. A good compromise imho would be for you to just add an init script that checks for the presence of the files on a usb drive and if found, do the same as my script. If you really really want to do it internally, check the contents of the minipal.plus file using 7zip, it's a cramfs that contains all the files you would have to overwrite. |
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bencadiz
BASIC
My machine: THEC64 Mini NTSC FW v 1.6.1
Posts: 8 
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Post by bencadiz on May 2, 2023 8:46:52 GMT
So, following the work of jj0 , I've built a simple Mini NTSC to PAL fake update, that as a bonus, also makes it VIC-20 aware Grab it here and let me know how it works for you guys! Infinite thanks for the fakeupdate. Works perfect! |
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pmb
BASIC
Posts: 1
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Post by pmb on Aug 21, 2023 16:01:54 GMT
faberfox, I joined this community specifically to say thank you for this fix. I'm one happy retro gamer again. I thought my reflexes were getting slow, turns out it was an NTSC 64 mini I was using! Now, back to the Llamasoft collection... :-)
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Post by rsn8887 on Oct 9, 2024 20:39:29 GMT
So, following the work of jj0 , I've built a simple Mini NTSC to PAL fake update, that as a bonus, also makes it VIC-20 aware Grab it here and let me know how it works for you guys! Thank you for the wonderful work! I had almost given up on my NTSC TheC64 Mini, because all the games ran too fast. |
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Post by b0wman on Oct 25, 2024 21:54:57 GMT
I just picked up a 64 mini but sadly it's an US model (didn't even pay attention to the box in the auction tbh...it was new and sealed though!) and yep i can confirm this works. Tested it running Sam's Journey c64mini crt (and cjm) with and without this fake update. Without the fake update it runs way too fast (i have a real pal 64 to compare to), with the fake update it runs perfect at the right speed. Any way i can make this permanent? I'm no stranger to digging around in places i shouldn't be. It's not hard to do but I'd rather not do permanent changes as they may hamper future firmware upgrades. A good compromise imho would be for you to just add an init script that checks for the presence of the files on a usb drive and if found, do the same as my script. If you really really want to do it internally, check the contents of the minipal.plus file using 7zip, it's a cramfs that contains all the files you would have to overwrite. There will be not more future updates for it. Could you release it as a permanent update within final firmware 1.61? That would be great. |
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