As some of you will be aware, I requested the source code for the firmware used by THEC64, THEC64 Mini, and THEVIC20 in mid November of last year. However, to date, RGL have not responded to my request.
Shaun Bebbers, an ex-employee of RGL who occasionally posts here, has chased this matter up on my behalf a few times. I have also tried to contact RGL several times through the form on their website. But they have never responded. However, I notice that some of you have had responses to queries sent via Facebook. Would anyone here be willing to chase up my request via that method? I don't actually have a Facebook account myself (I detest social media...).
Also, would anyone else here like to have a go at obtaining the source code? If more than one person requests the code, then RGL might feel under more pressure to release it.
I'm actually beginning to wonder whether RGL actually has all the source. In my request, I specifically asked them to include the code that would enable the kernel and bootloader to be built. It occurs to me that whatever shady Chinese company they bought their ARM boards from might have supplied them with a pre-built Linux image for the device without the source. If that's true, then it would be somewhat embarrassing as they'd never have been GPL compliant. And it might explain why they haven't responded to my request. For that reason, it might be easier just to request the source code for the front end that they build on top of Vice.
Have you sent a letter requesting and the payment?
Did you use recorded delivery?
Has the payment been cashed?
Yes, I sent a letter and ÂŁ5 cheque to the address given on their website. I didn't use recorded delivery because, at the time, I didn't think it would be necessary.
Last time I checked my bank account, the cheque hadn't been cashed.
As some of you will be aware, I requested the source code for the firmware used by THEC64, THEC64 Mini, and THEVIC20 in mid November of last year. However, to date, RGL have not responded to my request.
Shaun Bebbers, an ex-employee of RGL who occasionally posts here, has chased this matter up on my behalf a few times. I have also tried to contact RGL several times through the form on their website. But they have never responded. However, I notice that some of you have had responses to queries sent via Facebook. Would anyone here be willing to chase up my request via that method? I don't actually have a Facebook account myself (I detest social media...).
Also, would anyone else here like to have a go at obtaining the source code? If more than one person requests the code, then RGL might feel under more pressure to release it.
I'm actually beginning to wonder whether RGL actually has all the source. In my request, I specifically asked them to include the code that would enable the kernel and bootloader to be built. It occurs to me that whatever shady Chinese company they bought their ARM boards from might have supplied them with a pre-built Linux image for the device without the source. If that's true, then it would be somewhat embarrassing as they'd never have been GPL compliant. And it might explain why they haven't responded to my request. For that reason, it might be easier just to request the source code for the front end that they build on top of Vice.
I'd say they definitely have the source, they had it for the Mini as well.
Why don't RGL put the dam thing on GitHub and keep it updated or add it to there website like Koch Media did or like the sixty-four emulator(thats probably not updated, its 1.3.0), I don't see the problem, maybe how they see it is they already gave the source out already(if so why say sent ÂŁ5 then..?) but it was not complete, 1.0.5 is not the whole source, parts of it do not work and you can't compile everything and it to old to do anything with, it do not work with v1.5.2. RGL needs to stop thinking how much money there making, money is not everything, the users are more important, without us the machine would of not be made, hacking the machine make it more popular, look at PCUAE, if I or other users didn't pre-order THEC64 Mini there be no THEC64 Maxi or THEVIC20. RGL get you head out of the sand, you can now go back to work, Bars and Shops are now open again if thats the problem and I do not see that cause they had time to update the machines.
They only do updates cause in 2018, THEC64 Mini was a flop(when it was released in Europe in March 2018 it was getting bad reviews, well you would when it could only load one image file on the USB Stick) and they had to update its firmware before it release in the US on 9th October 2018, that why the USB File Loader was added on the same day, I worked in rental and I sold the original machine, the C64 in 1989 and fixed them too, I know how rental works.
If they do not want to shear the source code, tell us, do not leave us in the dark and remove it from the site so no one else sends ÂŁ5 of nothing, 5 months wow and nothing... lol.. sorry but its a joke.
When you sent the money, you did put Retro Games LTD on the check cause that address has another 3 or 4 business registered to it under Paul Andrews.
Last Edit: Apr 18, 2021 15:24:58 GMT by spannernick
Koch Media made the machines and all the hardware, joysticks and that, they are the manufacture of the machines, the same people that made the Capcom Home Arcade(I talked to one of them on Reddit about it), RGL made the firmware and designed it.
Last Edit: Apr 18, 2021 15:40:39 GMT by spannernick
Why don't RGL put the dam thing on GitHub and keep it updated or add it to there website like Koch Media did or like the sixty-four emulator(thats probably not updated, its 1.3.0), I don't see the problem, maybe how they see it is they already gave the source out already(if so why say sent ÂŁ5 then..?) but it was not complete, 1.0.5 is not the whole source, parts of it do not work and you can't compile everything and it to old to do anything with, it do not work with v1.5.2. RGL needs to stop thinking how much money there making, money is not everything, the users are more important, without us the machine would of not be made, hacking the machine make it more popular, look at PCUAE, if I or other users didn't pre-order THEC64 Mini there be no THEC64 Maxi or THEVIC20. RGL get you head out of the sand, you can now go back to work, Bars and Shops are now open again if thats the problem and I do not see that cause they had time to update the machines.
They only do updates cause in 2018, THEC64 Mini was a flop(when it was released in Europe in March 2018 it was getting bad reviews, well you would when it could only load one image file on the USB Stick) and they had to update its firmware before it release in the US on 9th October 2018, that why the USB File Loader was added on the same day, I worked in rental and I sold the original machine, the C64 in 1989 and fixed them too, I know how rental works.
If they do not want to shear the source code, tell us, do not leave us in the dark and remove it from the site so no one else sends ÂŁ5 of nothing, 5 months wow and nothing... lol.. sorry but its a joke.
When you sent the money, you did put Retro Games LTD on the check cause that address has another 3 or 4 business registered to it under Paul Andrews.
I'm pretty sure I made the cheque payable to 'Retro Games Ltd'. However, if that was wrong, they could have written back to me.
If my original letter and cheque has been lost (or not received) by RGL, then I'm happy to send another. But it's a bit irritating not to have received any response.
With regards to the firmware, I find it a bit odd that it's based on a very old version of the Linux kernel (3 point something). According to the Armbian forums, that might be because the NAND drivers have not been updated to work with more recent versions of the Kernel. However, if the firmware was rebuild from scratch by RGL, you'd think they would have used a more recent version of the kernel as a starting point, and also insisted that the NAND drivers be brought up to date by the manufacturer.
That why it uses a old kernal from 2016 and VICE 2.4 and buildroot 2016, it took them 2 years to design and get a manufacture to build THEC64 Mini, THEC64 Mini was Prototype for THEC64 Maxi.
Last Edit: Apr 18, 2021 17:36:18 GMT by spannernick
Why don't RGL put the dam thing on GitHub and keep it updated or add it to there website like Koch Media did or like the sixty-four emulator(thats probably not updated, its 1.3.0), I don't see the problem, maybe how they see it is they already gave the source out already(if so why say sent ÂŁ5 then..?) but it was not complete, 1.0.5 is not the whole source, parts of it do not work and you can't compile everything and it to old to do anything with, it do not work with v1.5.2. RGL needs to stop thinking how much money there making, money is not everything, the users are more important, without us the machine would of not be made, hacking the machine make it more popular, look at PCUAE, if I or other users didn't pre-order THEC64 Mini there be no THEC64 Maxi or THEVIC20. RGL get you head out of the sand, you can now go back to work, Bars and Shops are now open again if thats the problem and I do not see that cause they had time to update the machines.
They only do updates cause in 2018, THEC64 Mini was a flop(when it was released in Europe in March 2018 it was getting bad reviews, well you would when it could only load one image file on the USB Stick) and they had to update its firmware before it release in the US on 9th October 2018, that why the USB File Loader was added on the same day, I worked in rental and I sold the original machine, the C64 in 1989 and fixed them too, I know how rental works.
If they do not want to shear the source code, tell us, do not leave us in the dark and remove it from the site so no one else sends ÂŁ5 of nothing, 5 months wow and nothing... lol.. sorry but its a joke.
When you sent the money, you did put Retro Games LTD on the check cause that address has another 3 or 4 business registered to it under Paul Andrews.
I'm pretty sure I made the cheque payable to 'Retro Games Ltd'. However, if that was wrong, they could have written back to me.
If my original letter and cheque has been lost (or not received) by RGL, then I'm happy to send another. But it's a bit irritating not to have received any response.
With regards to the firmware, I find it a bit odd that it's based on a very old version of the Linux kernel (3 point something). According to the Armbian forums, that might be because the NAND drivers have not been updated to work with more recent versions of the Kernel. However, if the firmware was rebuild from scratch by RGL, you'd think they would have used a more recent version of the kernel as a starting point, and also insisted that the NAND drivers be brought up to date by the manufacturer.
They just went with the Allwinner reference design and associated uboot/kernel SDK. They didn't have a need/requirement for an updated kernel as the system as-is works fine for their purposes. They're (clearly) not in the business of being helpful to us poor modders.
RGL made the machines to make money only, if you want to see how much money they have made from them so far look for Retro Games LTD on Company House, it part of UK law that they have to publish there earnings they make and who is involved with in the company, anyone can look at it.
It not like how the C64DTV was, that might of been made by Darren Melbourne and Paul Gouge but was designed by Jeri Ellsworth who helped the modellers community by putting stuff on its board so you could modify it or add stuff to it, it ashamed RGL is not the same and open, but if you remember they closed down the original forum cause they didn't like the hacking on THEC64 Mini and what we were talking about modifying it so they have made it clear to me, all they really care about is money and how many machines they sale.
Funny thing is when you modify something to make it better it makes people want it more and makes it more attractive so I do not see the point not shearing it, why not share the updated source code and it should be free anyway, when it has VICE in it, it would be nothing without it, they just made the carousel round it and made sure it worked with VICE, a bit like C64 Forever really, that has its own GUI around WinVICE, its the same idea. this is one of the differences between THEC64 and C64DTV, thats not a emulator it has a ASIC chip so she had to build the C64 inside it, its a simulator, its like a copy of the C64 so its has all it ports and that on the board, the C64DTV is the closes you will get to a real c64, so more work is involved cause its not a emulator.
Exactly right that if they posted the source code it would spur more sales as more people modify it. While the Maxi is in high demand here in the states (the only two batches Amazon has got so far sold out quick), the mini you can easily find on various gaming store shelves or online in America for $25 to $35.
I think that's primarily because it doesn't have a working keyboard, but to me that's a a poor excuse because it's GUI is so easy to use and has seamless features compared to the road bumps something like a raspberry pi can have in requiring more tinkering. It's simple enough to use the virtual keyboard or a keyboard plugged into USB on the mini to get past any key presses a trainer screen or game needs before getting to the actual game.
Besides, the Mini's exact replica of a C64 case is worth the price alone, not to mention you get an awesome GUI, single board computer, and a Competition Pro replica joystick thrown in for that price.
When it initially came to America it was around $80. Still a bargain pretty much for the joystick and replica case alone compared to what other minis were offering. Most of them didn't even offer USB loading of games that didn't come with it.
I think many retro game shops or retailers decided not to import the maxi here after the mini didn't fly off the shelves. Big mistake, because I don't think they could get them if they wanted them now due to production slow downs in china with the virus. I'm guessing only Amazon pre ordered them so they were the only ones here in the states that got a supply.
The maxi is also one heck of a value. Full size case, working keyboard, micro switch joystick, and the seamless GUI for $129. I bet many people bought them just to throw a pi into it so they could fully emulate many old systems with a working keyboard. Try to buy a replica keyboard and case for anything in the retro gaming era of the C64 and you'll pay far more for either the case or the keyboard.
It could be as well, the import charges from China have gone through the roof so costs to much now to import...
Destination 20ft 40ft U.S. (New York) £1,800 – £1,970 £2,400 – £2,600 Mexico (Veracruz) £1,500 – £1,650 £2,000 – £2,240 Canada (Montreal) £1,900 – £2,070 £2,500 – £2,700 It get shipped from China to the US when they are built.
Last Edit: Jul 25, 2021 11:39:01 GMT by spannernick
Exactly right that if they posted the source code it would spur more sales as more people modify it.
Well... The source code for the Mini was released (except for the nand drivers as described elsewhere) and it hasn't exactly led to many people modding it.
That's because without a working keyboard if people are going to have to plug in a keyboard they'd just rather opt for a raspberry pi anyway at roughly the same price and be able to emulate anything they want. In my opinion though the mini is worth it for the neat case and great GUI features. As said though, the maxi is a different story. People are importing them here in the states for $250 or more because they want them so badly.
C64 Mini and Maxi using latest firmware. Also fixing and restoring Commodore hardware to add to my collection.
Exactly right that if they posted the source code it would spur more sales as more people modify it. While the Maxi is in high demand here in the states (the only two batches Amazon has got so far sold out quick), the mini you can easily find on various gaming store shelves or online in America for $25 to $35.
I think that's primarily because it doesn't have a working keyboard, but to me that's a a poor excuse because it's GUI is so easy to use and has seamless features compared to the road bumps something like a raspberry pi can have in requiring more tinkering. It's simple enough to use the virtual keyboard or a keyboard plugged into USB on the mini to get past any key presses a trainer screen or game needs before getting to the actual game.
Besides, the Mini's exact replica of a C64 case is worth the price alone, not to mention you get an awesome GUI, single board computer, and a Competition Pro replica joystick thrown in for that price.
When it initially came to America it was around $80. Still a bargain pretty much for the joystick and replica case alone compared to what other minis were offering. Most of them didn't even offer USB loading of games that didn't come with it.
I think many retro game shops or retailers decided not to import the maxi here after the mini didn't fly off the shelves. Big mistake, because I don't think they could get them if they wanted them now due to production slow downs in china with the virus. I'm guessing only Amazon pre ordered them so they were the only ones here in the states that got a supply.
The maxi is also one heck of a value. Full size case, working keyboard, micro switch joystick, and the seamless GUI for $129. I bet many people bought them just to throw a pi into it so they could fully emulate many old systems with a working keyboard. Try to buy a replica keyboard and case for anything in the retro gaming era of the C64 and you'll pay far more for either the case or the keyboard.
For me, 90% of the Maxi's appeal lies in the replica keyboard and case, which they did very well. If it wasn't for that, then I'd just buy a cheaper, more capable, Pi 400 and put something like Combian 64 on it.
One serious mistake RGL made was in not making the C64 Maxi's case an exact replica of an actual C64's case. It looks the same, and has the same overall dimensions, but it doesn't have the original cut-outs on the back. That makes it less hack-friendly, and means it's not possible, without extensive modification, to use it as a replacement case for an original C64. Had it been compatible, they could have made a lot of extra money by selling C64 Maxi cases and keyboards to original C64 owners.
I actually had a go at replacing my C64 Maxi's keyboard with an original C64 keyboard. I've nothing against the stock keyboard. Actually, I rather like it. But I have concerns over the longevity of the painted keycaps.
Anyway, to cut a long story short, it doesn't fit. The overall dimensions are the same, but the mounting frame is just different enough to be annoying. I think that by drilling some extra holes, and doing a bit of filing, I could probably hack it in. But I eventually decided it wasn't worth the effort or risk.
I really hope that their Amiga case is an exact replica of one of the Amiga models. That would make the product vastly more appealing IMHO.
You're right to be concerned that the Maxi's painted keys might wear the paint off from pressing them over time. If you look close you can see the paint at the very top sharp lifted edges of the keys is very thin and actually showing some white through as the paint probably poured away from the raised rim. A good way to prevent wear might be to put clear plastic or vinyl caps on the top that naturally sticks from static charge, just like the stuff they use to protect labels and such on new products during shipping. Then if need be you could just peal and replace without damaging the paint.
Far as no cutouts for using the case for original commodore boards, I bet somebody is already working on templates and 3D printed parts to simply cut out ports with a Dremel. But yeah, they should have had the plastic perforated so you could simply snap out the ports if you wanted to throw a real motherboard in it. The biggest cost in manufacturing is probably the case, so by doing that it could have made a dual purpose return on the investment. Then again, they could just sell the empty case, with or without keyboard, for Pi or original hardware owners to use however they want. Sell it for $99 and watch how fast they sell. Then the aftermarket crowd would probably step up and sell various brackets and kits for Pi or motherboards and with or without using original keyboards in various combinations of all above.
I'm waiting for somebody to make a USB dongle box for the back of the maxi or Pi400 (maybe using it's GPIO port) that would allow you to use original C64 cartridges. Add a serial disk drive port and atari style joystick ports to this dongle box and watch how fast that thing sells too. With the cartridge port mounted vertical it would be nicely functional as well over original equipment.
A good way to prevent wear might be to put clear plastic or vinyl caps on the top that naturally sticks from static charge, just like the stuff they use to protect labels and such on new products during shipping. Then if need be you could just peal and replace without damaging the paint.
Where would I find these clear plastic caps? And you're saying one plastic cap would fit over top of one individual key, or are you talking like a full size clear vinyl keyboard cover?
Where would I find these clear plastic caps? And you're saying one plastic cap would fit over top of one individual key, or are you talking like a full size clear vinyl keyboard cover?
Where would I find these clear plastic caps? And you're saying one plastic cap would fit over top of one individual key, or are you talking like a full size clear vinyl keyboard cover?
Thank you for the link, but that looks like it's for replacement stickers. Well that would work if the paint on the keys ever comes off. So when they made these C64 Maxi's, they didn't doubleshot the keys like in the 80's?
Thank you for the link, but that looks like it's for replacement stickers. Well that would work if the paint on the keys ever comes off. So when they made these C64 Maxi's, they didn't doubleshot the keys like in the 80's?
The stickers are transparent. The idea is, you put them on before the paint wears off.
Admittedly, it's not ideal. But short of 3D-printing a new set of keycaps (which would probably look terrible if printed with a low-res consumer grade 3D-printer) I'm not sure what else you can do.
Unfortunately, the C64 Maxi's keycaps are not double-shot. They're laser-ablated. Check out my previous link for further details.
If you look at this video you can see why Koch Media never went with Double shot, for one they are expense keycaps and a big machine is used to make them so properly cost effective so was cheaper to just make the Key Caps the same way they did THEC64 Mini and cause really THEC64 Maxi is just a full side version of THEC64 Mini.
Last Edit: Aug 4, 2021 14:21:03 GMT by spannernick
Thank you for the link, but that looks like it's for replacement stickers. Well that would work if the paint on the keys ever comes off. So when they made these C64 Maxi's, they didn't doubleshot the keys like in the 80's?
The stickers are transparent. The idea is, you put them on before the paint wears off.
Admittedly, it's not ideal. But short of 3D-printing a new set of keycaps (which would probably look terrible if printed with a low-res consumer grade 3D-printer) I'm not sure what else you can do.
Unfortunately, the C64 Maxi's keycaps are not double-shot. They're laser-ablated. Check out my previous link for further details.
I wasn't aware that keyboard keys were referred to as 'keycaps'. So when I think of a keycap, I'm thinking of a plastic, clear 'cap' that goes over top of the actual keyboard key, (key cap) to protect the paint from coming off. I saw them on Amazon I thought, but when I'm looking closer, it's alibaba. But they are literally clear, plastic squares you fit over top of the keyboard key. They are selling 100 of them, not sure I'd trust alibaba, delivery time 30-50 days.
Would something like these protectors fit over the Maxi keys?
TheC64 Community Chat.. You have to be a member to post.
andreasc64: Hello everyone! I am new to this forum. When i was a chlid, I played C64 all day and. I also wrote many BASIC programs. And here is my quesition: Did you play "Apollo 18: Mission to the Moon" ? Do you know how Accolade did the digitalized speech ?
Nov 1, 2024 13:01:44 GMT
francec77: Scusate se son un pò ignorante ma quando cerco di cambiare carosello cliccando fireA e botton4 il mini entra in modalità classica con schermata blu in basic... non si vedono le schermate per scegliere i caroselli ma posso solo vedere le cartelle
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francec77: buongiorno a tutti
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alucard2: thank you for your reply. I don't understand why PCUAE manager has extra disk if you can't change the disk via the carousel.
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ahmedsaq: is it possible to have two player in c64 mini ?
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ahmedsaq: how i can delete games from c64 mini ?
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ahmedsaq: hi everyone , i have two question
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mrrockitt: Hi everyone, how are you all doing?
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ginger: Project carousel downloaded latest onto usb stick i keep getting message favourites 11 not exported,how do i export game list HELP PLEASE
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mk00: Is there a tool to unpack and edit the firmware and then pack it again (THE C64)
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Marios Evripidou: Hello all. Welcome me to the forum
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metalmaster: I opened a brand new C64 maxi today, plugged it in to my iyamma 24" bog standard hdmi pc monitor and had zero picture detected on the monitor. what a dissapointment. has anyone else had issues with this ?
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c64aa: Is there a trick to play dual sided games in the d64 format on the c64 mini? Most of the games I want to play are only available in multiple files and I read back when the mini was released there was no way to play dual sided games
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vintagewatches.pk: COMMODORE64 PETSCII RETRO C64 ASCII VIDEO TO TEXT CHARACTERS 8BIT LETTERS OLD SCHOOL Youtube Link:youtu.be/-70uCoySwMc
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quixo51: Hello all, my name is Enrique and I live in Mexico. I have the mini and the maxi too.
Jan 23, 2024 17:16:25 GMT
iCode: Hi check out this video I uploaded for playing multiplayer games on Mini with Atari Joysticks! www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-7vqfx2nRo
Jan 8, 2024 3:09:04 GMT
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vintagewatches.pk: Hi, I just upload the C64 demo video on youtube, if you like then please share it with c64 community and also subscribe my channel for future videos Link:youtu.be/NEX_OEPBOgo
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george2514: Suika Game plays similarly to Sega's Puyo Puyo Tetris, Suika Game in which you have to line up matching fruits to make them disappear before the basket overflows.
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realbart: Got the c16 working through PCUAE / Vice. Now for the positional keyboard mapping...
Dec 20, 2023 22:06:16 GMT